$1.7B in Vaults, Zero Bad Debt: How Steakhouse Actually Does Risk

Creation is not avoiding all risk. It's just packaging it so people are aware of what risk they are taking. Steakhouse has established itself as a dominant player within this category. And I think a huge part of this is attributable to the reputation for security um and having zero bad debt while other curators or other teams within the space have collapsed. And we want also to believe in the DeFi etos to say well power to the people or power to the depositors at least and so every time we create a new vault we create a new decentralized organization so everyone wants to go now that's very clear everyone wants to do something a workshop in London there was only traditional finance people and they were all excited to do something we are really at the beginning we didn't see anything currently it's really fintex which are only starting to come.

>> Within the last years, risk curation has exploded and quickly become one of the most successful and profitable verticals in the crypto industry. In the years 2024 to 2026 alone, we saw risk curator TVL explode and grow from roughly $43 million of TVL to roughly $7.1 billion today. Within that category, Stakehouse Financial has emerged as a dominant player, securing today $1.7 billion worth of TVL, or otherwise roughly 24% of the overall TVL amongst curators. One of the more recent catalysts for this dominance has been the events of October and November of 2026. While stream finance collapsed, elixir's deusdable coin deped and liquidation cascades caused users to lose hundreds of millions of dollars, uh, stakehouse had zero exposure, further reinforcing their position as an institutional grade resilient risk curator amongst competition.

I'm Dylan Hansen from DIA and today we're talking with Sebastian Durabo from Stakehouse Financial. All right. Um, Sebastian, welcome. Thank you. So, let's kick it off with just a brief introduction on yourself and your background, of course, get to know kind of where you came from and the drivers in your experience that led you to co-founding Stakehouse.

I know that before Stakehouse, you led Maker Dow's RWA efforts uh and and eventually led to the induction or the uh the creation of $2.2 billion worth of allocation going into US treasuries for MakerDA. So, if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to kick it off like this, just hear a little bit about your background and really what was the market gap or opportunity that you discovered while at Makerd or afterwards that led you to co-found steakhouse? >> Yeah, sure. So, yeah, my background quite quickly, I have a PhD in data science, worked for different companies, financial banks, insurance, video games company, I worked on World of Warcraft and Softcraft 2, those kind of stuff. So, plenty of stuff.

And during COVID like a lot of people there was a lot of uh issues finding a new consulting engagement and I had some free time and I was on the make a forum starting to try to work on what is it in a D actually so anyone can join that was quite an amazing experience and quite quickly I started to uh to lead the keyword finance core unit which job was to make financial reporting for Mod but also trying to innovate in the field that was called the real water set that was already present and some people were already working on it but it was still some missing pieces especially on the side so I was there to try to move this uh these things forward plenty of legal technical uh community issues because it's quite foreign for people at the time at least to have real world asset you need to remember that in uh in May 2020 maker adopted USDC as collateral and that was complete mess because people were saying well it's the end of decentralized finance if you start to have USDC now obviously six years later USDC is everywhere so not much we can do about it that ship as a sale and so we were trying to start to do real world asset project with new silver with others and then there was as you mentioned more investment in Tibills Why is that? Because at the time the T bill rate was starting to move up again because it was at 0% after COVID for quite some time and it was a bare market. Not this bare market but the previous one or the one before. I don't know how many bare market there was. >> Uh I'm not tracking the price too much but so the lending rate on Maker was 0%.

So Maker was willing to lend D at 0% and no one wanted to borrow it. some people but not enough. So there was a big pile of USDC sitting in what is called the PSM the price stability module. And so the idea was to say, well, let's get outside of the D5 box. Let's go in the real world, invest in Tibils.

And that's what we did first offchain and then with the Spark Grand Prix a few years later on chain. And just before that uh we were working at maker and I found my co-founders uh Mark and Andrea that were part of the real world finance team and then the strategic finance team and we went on well let's not stop with maker and let's work with other Dows and we started a shop called Stros Financial to advise on many Dows especially on topics like financial reporting which was a very important need for a lot of Dows and also real world asset So it started there as a consulting engagement. We had most of the DOS we worked with orbit room ens laido and plenty of others and more recently we pivoted to say well let's make product let's grow a bit because we started just as a small boutique shop just to make a few advisory on the side and now we are a team of 30 people and create and the leading creator on morpho we are the creating vault on Camino. I'm quite sure we will go a bit more deeper on those. And we are also painting Grove which is one of the prime star of Sky.

>> Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Yeah. Quite interesting to me how risk curators kind of originated with this uh this risk curator kind of uh actual intention right in that actually anal analyzing risk being able to actually provide this reporting standards for different um crypto projects and whatnot.

And as you mentioned look into actually productizing this through vaults and whatnot. And as I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, I think vaults are really the main I almost think you know to refer to them as vault curators at these days but um you know maybe is are vaults the main core product these days or are you still providing these this overview of you know risk as it relates to certain companies and entities? I suppose these are very intertwined. Yes, I mean vault is one product but sometimes if you are working for instance we are working with a bank general forge. Uh obviously a vault is part of the product but we are also advising.

So they are quite complex to monetary product. For instance, if you look at grove which is more asset liability management or balance sheet management service we are offering to the grove do part of the sky ecosystem. Then having vaults I mean it's part of the allocation they invest in vaults and we can create vaults that match the requirement the specific requirements of growth. So there is a lot of synergies between all the line of business the three line of business at StOS and so that's why it's also more exciting for us. >> Yeah.

Excellent. Yeah. Thank you. So maybe if we can zoom out for a second and just for those kind of tuning in who might not be entirely familiar with a vault um and haven't gone too deep, could you just start with like a very simple explanation of what a vault is and then we can dive a little bit deeper from there and really interested to hear your perspective. Who benefits the most from vaults?

Are is it retail investors? Are is it institutions or is it really collective? >> Yes. No, very good question. So I level you have defy and for those that are here for a long time that was it's complicated even for those that are full-time for the last six years there is plenty of yield opportunities but it's very difficult and it's require a lot of due diligence to spend the time to understand what are the risk what are the reward how does it work for instance for some protocol we spend three months trying to understand analyzing the audits making sure that what is deployed is actually what was audited not as easy as it sounds.

So it's quite complicated. So for people most people it's difficult to access the opportunities of defi because they are so bespoke they are so arcane and complex. So vault is just an abstraction saying well we provide a simple vault which is uh let's not go too deep technically but ERC 4626 so very nice standards you get you put a token let's say USDC in you get a share of the vault some shares of the vault and then you are putting capital with other people in a non-estriial way that's important as well that will then another party the creator or the DA how we'll be able to allocate this capital to the different field opportunities and more or less uh do the clical work of operating and allocating the flows. >> So it's a simplification of uh it's an infrastructure piece in DeFi to abstract the yield component uh of the defy opportunities. >> Yeah.

Excellent. And and to date, Steakhouse has established itself as a dominant player within this category. You know, I checking the the facts last night, it's about 25% of the total DV uh t TVL within the curator category. And I think a huge part of this is attributable to the reputation for security um and having zero bad debt while other curators or other teams within the space have collapsed. You know, if we look back to October 10th and, you know, November of 2026, this was a defining point and from my perspective in um curator reputation and steakhouse emerged as you know with a very uh you know strong feat of having zero bad debt within this and further kind of sharing its strong security practices.

So, can you take us through what this looks like behind the hood a little bit? You know, um how has stakehouse been able to achieve this? How does steakhouse essentially differentiate itself amongst competition? You know, when you see other curators or other projects failing or collapsing in such circumstances, how has steakhouse built, you know, a differentiation in establishing itself as being able to mitigate these types of risks. >> Yes.

Uh for sure. So, let me just put that creation is not avoiding all risk. It's just packaging it so people are aware of what risk they are taking because obviously some people wants more risk that's why we have the prime vault which are the more blue chip uh using only the blue chip collateral and we have the i yield which is a bit more exposed to risk for people that want to have a more exotic collateral and usually there is a higher yield now we have a framework but even on the yield we didn't get any bad depth on stream finance and I will come back to that but let's for to lay out or how we think about uh this we have a risk framework we are assessing uh each collateral to be added in three pillars and we are going quite deep on each of those to understand and create a rating. So for instance usually for the prime vote we are only taking so we have a thick letters double a very pristine currently there is nothing that shows also the state of def well maybe that would be east actually I think east is on double a e on ethereum obviously only but then it says collateral so it's a fluid uh then you have a which is quite good I mean what rap is cbtc those kind of stuff double b double c and C we never use it. uh the A and A are used for the prime voltage.

Usually on the high voltage we are sometimes going up to CC but constraint meaning we don't get full exposure to only one collateral that is CC and how we are analyzing uh the counterparty risk we are analyzing the volatility risk and plenty of others everything is documented on the website I recommend people to go on stfinancials and you will see even all the markets and their rating Uh but also we are looking at the audits making sure that what is deployed match what is the audits uh if there is an EO controlling some assets uh if could be plenty of things what the protocol is investing how it is evolving so sometimes the protocol start safe but over time it gets more and more risky so we are taking care of those we are also putting in place some um we call them kill switches is uh which track a lot of events on chain we are also using IP for that and if something strange happen then we try to exit the market or at least not allocate more and if it's very serious we exit the market uh completely or we try to exit the market to safeguard the vault itself. So this is the overall layout and that what that worked quite well so far. Obviously it's always probabilities. You try to avoid the most likelihood source of issues which are the single C's but it doesn't mean that a double C or even a double B will not have an issue. It's just that the risk is way smaller.

One issue we have in D5 is that we don't have so many diversification because there is not so many craterals that you can have. If you look at most vault first I think more volt v1s are limited by 25 collaterals so that's not a great diversification in the tri fence but usually it's mainly three to five um big collateral so you have a concentration risk but that's just the state of defy today so not much sadly we can do about it to come to stream finance it's quite funny because I would love to for us to look smart But it was very simple. We just add one line of F change with the team because they wanted to get listed or and I just say well you are just an unregulated leverage edge fund. They say yes. I say well we don't add it because that's directly on the C line because it's too risky.

There was some opacity. You have opacity issues. You don't have everything on chain and so on. So we didn't do a proper due diligence because it was uh removed quite early on. So we didn't knew much about it just that it wasn't uh inside with capetite and obviously for the months before the crash we saw a lot of oil flows from our vault or the vault to the to some competitors that were exposed because the yield was better and people are chasing the yield and then we lost a lot and then blew up.

So we are still here. So I mean ends of the day it was fine. >> Yeah. Thank you for taking me through that. And you mentioned hyper native.

One one of the things I'm always curious about is understanding to what extent this due diligence process is done in-house versus to what extent you guys are you know leveraging and taking advantage of other um intelligence providers, Oracle providers, you know other like essentially um onchain data analytics platforms. So when you guys are going through this internal due diligence process, yeah, maybe if you could just share a quick note on like to what extent is this done inhouse versus, you know, where are you leveraging and able to leverage u confidently, you know, external third party due diligence? >> I would say it's many internal I'm trying to think about cases where we were using external parties, but actually it's not so many. Most of the time is spent uh Yeah, really on understanding the protocol. Uh so that's and there is not so and just getting all the information.

We have a DDQ due diligence questionnaire that is quite extensive that we send to people and it's always funny when say well you are the first creator to send us a DDQ because usually no one is asking anything. Uh but actually we ask and we try to understand which is sadly taking quite a lot of time. So that's why we are usually alo always a bit late to the party and yeah we are using some tools to track on chain what is going on for the development the integration with between the different smart contract to see which one is coded by which one I don't it's an open source tool that is quite amazing because it provide a nice visualization but I don't I blank a bit on the name but yeah so not so much uh external tools I penet is here to is great tool because it provide real time feedback and so you can provide filters and it will alert you when something is going on and obviously it's not alerting us as humans we are really just uh oning automatically some kill switch and then we are analyzing we always kill switch something and then we analyze >> understood so essentially due diligence can is more comprehensively done inhouse but these extter tools are probably supplemental or complimentary for real time monitoring, right? And having more kind of sight on on real time circumstances. >> Yes.

Correct. >> Okay. Excellent. Super cool. Yeah.

I want to go deeper into one more kind of like differentiation aspect of steakhouse and then zoom back out to some of your thoughts on the future and the state of the you know kind of curator um vertical and specifically diving into transparency and governance. I think this is one of the um kind of distinction uh factors that steakhouse provides um and inst kind of enforcing these institutional grade controls. Uh if I look through it here, this includes 7-day time locks which is above the industry minimum or standard. Um uh guardian veto mechanism. This is something I want to dive deeper into with you.

And then supervisor v2 which is a new control layer uh that ensures non-custodial guarantees. Maybe you can just take us through a high level here like which of these you know is uh actually the most unique you know for me I want to go deeper into the guardian veto mechanism if I understand it you know depositors actually become guardians to a proportional extent of their deposits um and can veto curator decisions. I think this is super neat. Can you can you share more about kind of like the whole ideology of this um and to what extent this actually plays a role effectively in curator decision making? >> Yes, for sure.

And the three elements uh the time lock, the veto and the supervisor are both three connected to achieve the same goal which is to say full non custodidity because if you are the creator and we can you can do what whatever you want and you can see on some vault of the competitors there is usually a guardian or a sentinel in the mor volt v2 palance but it's usually the same multisig as the other ones and uh so that's non non-custodial. So this only solution for people let's say creator wants to rockpool everyone they had a bad collateral that they can mint they allocate to it they mean the collateral they take all the money and leave uh so that's something that can happen on any lending protocol really uh obviously the governance is different in our case we said well that's a risk we kind of trust ourselves to do the right thing but what if you get hit by a us and keys are compromised. You never know. At least we and we want also to believe in the DeFi to say well >> power to the people or power to the depositors at least. And so every time we create a new vault we create a new decentralized organization which is not uh by users of the vault.

So for every vault we have more than 100 now. I think there is 100 Aragon where anyone having shares of the vault can go on Zorggon website uh get some uh sometimes they just need to log sometimes they need to wrap it depending on the version. uh now it's just uh they just need to look and they can vote to veto something like I mean they can make whatever decisions they want but the most important one are to veto something the creator has initiated so it's optimistic governance because obviously if you want to vote on everything uh I worked for Dow for quite some times I remember very well my time in the summer at Micada where no one was getting paid because all the governance holder token holders were on vacation and they were not voting and so people weren't getting paid. So big Dows don't move fast because it's complicated to get governance done. So we adopted a optimistic governance.

We propose some things that was seven days which was the longest at the time. Now for the prime most people followed but usually people were on one day zero day or three days. Now it's really 3 days and 7 days and there is seven days for people to start a vote and vote against it. And what is we are the only one at scale at doing it and it's very interesting is that you only need one person of all the depositors I think we have more than 100,000 depositors to show up at Aragon or to know how aragon is working or spending the time to make it work to create the vote on it. wait one day and then you can veto all decision some someone with a $1.

So that's uh very neat. Obviously if someone shows up with $10 saying no you are just trying to block the process I will vote against you then it doesn't work. But uh it's really a d in the sense of anyone with um with deposit in the vault can vote against your decision and it was quite scary at the beginning. We was we were assuming well some a lot of people will vote create vote and vote against everything just because competitors have an incentive to do it just to mess up around a bit but actually uh not it never happened like that because it's just too complicated and if we had some collateral that are obviously we never tried to rock pull maybe we should try to see what happens but it's not what we want to do anyway. H but uh yeah even if you had some collateral maybe some people can leave anyway so maybe they are not going to vote they just vote with their feet and the supervisor is just to honor the same uh structure on moo volt v2 which works a bit differently.

So on Maf V2, we are the only one doing that. And to be totally transparent, I never saw anyone caring too much. Some people like it, but it's not a decision driver for people to allocate, >> I think. Yeah, >> sad. >> So I'm seeing of course the connection here now to your um time at Maker Dow, right?

And then into kind of the voting process here. And how do you look at delegation? How do you consider this? Right? I think the as you mentioned kind of the idea the ideology behind vaults is to you know enable complex strategies to be accessed by the average user.

Um so how do you look at this? Do you guys do you guys embrace delegation in terms of you know allowing and delegating your vote essentially to somebody who you think might have more intelligence on a decision or are you guys averse to that for a specific reason? So on the vault itself we are really optimistic because although we want to make sure that there is no governance attack or pick someone can just make a bad decision so we are initiating so we are kind of the first filter but then the governance can veto whatever they want but at least you don't have an attack like I think there was an attack of compound a few days ago that was not successful but still it's quite challenging and there was on micro once uh once in the past. So it's when you have many vaults it will be more challenging to make sure that Dance is fine. And for instance to answer your question on mofo because we have some mofo tokens.

We are delegating all the voting power to someone to one party and we are not taking much action or governance time on the moro side and we are letting it to delegate which is more uh more effective than us because obviously we need to run vaults. We don't have time to do governance. >> Okay. Super clear. Yeah.

Thank you for that for the explanation on that. Um, I'd like to zoom out a little bit away from the governance and security aspect. And for me, uh, on a personal basis, one of the kind of the questions I find to be most interesting is looking into the specific types of assets that Steakhouse, you know, is curating, is including in their vault. Um, when I speak with curators in the past, it boils down to obviously security of a given asset, but also they I I've been informed that, you know, teams are ma mainly looking at where the borrower demand sits. Do people actually want to borrow against these assets?

Um, and um or rather borrow these assets, but I'm sure it's a lot more comprehensive than that. So I'd love to get your, you know, expert overview of like really what is it when looking at what assets to include and then in which vault to include a specific asset. How does this look also behind the hood? >> Yeah, sure. So high level we have a we are a piece of infrastructure.

So we have a risk framework and so we could add all the collaterals except in reality we don't have an infinite bandwidth. So we need to prioritize what we are looking at and to your point yeah there are some collaterals that we know are single C so we will not look at them or they are not uh acceptable for us or at least under whisker framework uh some that are small and we don't see bar of demand so we will spend more time on those that we think are more worthwhile and some that could be good but we know that uh if we try to add it on some vaults some LPS will try to veto it because usually when you have a big depositors in the vault. You're asking first before adding the collateral. So that's why there is not so much contention on the voting side because you first ask uh offchain before going to an onchain veto which is not usually not great. So to your point uh you need to have a sufficient level of yield safety obviously that's safety is the first one but also a year let's say you have a and demand for instance one thing that if you take a cryptocurrency a very small one so for instance if you take moru as collateral something you can ask yourself ourselves why do we don't we lend against the moro token with Moro vaults.

But actually the only reason then it's a risk issue because there is not enough liquidity and the liquidity there is on the market would allow us to lend maybe 1 million against Moro and making just something for 1 million is not making any change and it's not super useful especially as on MU the more collateral you add the more gas you consume and there is a hard limit as well. So you need to be a bit more tailored. Uh so there are some assets bearing stable coin wins incentives bendal tokens those are working well uh you have now we did two private credits uh those you might say well that's a bit uh funky taking a bit of risk but actually on MF1 we spent three months to make the product uh worthwhile and we have it in a vault for 9 months now there was some uh crypto twitter drama 6 months ago but no bad depth and a very good uh very good performance otherwise for lenders. So that's what uh we are looking uh as kind of collateral and the next stage is more asset I would say that will be quite hot but it's still TBD or it will go you can see that some lending protocols they have added the some uh some um stock index like the spy or QQQ not a lot of borrow demand partly because it's a volatile asset who wants to leverage on that it's difficult to leverage. You will not go 10 times leverage on the NASDAQ index.

I mean, at least I wouldn't assume it's safe. So, there is a per market for that. I'm quite sure, but >> this works more on the per market than on the lending protocol because if borrowers get liquidated too often, then the market dies because borrowers don't have money anymore. Mhm. And so what does this look like?

As you mentioned in the scope of private credit with crypto tokens, you mentioned of course liquidity is a huge aspect of an of your kind of due diligence process. Can an asset be liquidated um but how does this look within the scope of private credit assuming that there's not onchain liquidity for these types of >> Yeah, that's a good question. For for instance, for FANA, we put onchain liquidity. That's why in the MF1 token there is 10% that is liquid. Uh there is also ways to get liquidity more.

There are side deals to make sure there is a liquid liquidator of last resort. And it's funny because we spend quite a long time and we stress quite a lot about how to make sure there is always a liquidator. That's why for instance on the mor market if you look at it there is a price of the token but for more market we put a discount at 7.7%. just to increase the liquidation penalty. So someone shows up to take the liquidation penalty in insight.

Maybe it was too big. I mean overall you earn 10%. You have a 10% discount if you liquidate this token. And there was one example. It was stream finance.

It was close to get liquidated. And I know that everyone I know was trying to snipe it to get to be the liquidator, >> right? >> And uh sadly no one was succeeding. There was no liquidation. But yeah, everyone was rushing to make it uh to liquidate it.

So I don't think private credit will scale because obviously you can do it up to a certain size. You can have offchain deals up to a certain size. You cannot have billions of liquidity of last resort. That's not possible. That would be just too expensive.

Uh so I think we will move more for on more liquid collateral. But last year at the rate that lending protocol were doing so it was you were borrowing at six 7% you needed something that was yielding more to make sense and private credit was the right uh the right approach. Now currently you can borrow at 5% four 5% so that's a very different market depending on the market the kind of collateral is not the same. Yeah, this is one of the things I'm fascinated by when we look into real world assets. Um because you can effectively uh you know tokenize an asset, bring it on chain, uh kind of have it backed in some you know some SPV or like a um British Virgin Islands entity or something like this.

But I'm very fascinated by the actual redeemability of these assets. I think that this for me as I look forward is a big uh needed unlock and perhaps likely something you guys are already internally doing the due diligence on. But you know as like an external third party um you know such as something like Hyper Native like a public resource for accessing real-time information on assets I think that this is a big unlock personally. Um what is the redeemability of a certain asset? Who are the liquidators exactly?

How can this be actually liquidated if most of the collateral is sitting offchain? Um, so just thought I'd add I'd add my uh kind of curiosity to that, but I wanna I want to pick your brain on where you think this is all heading. Um, it seems currently there's a bit of a consensus that vaults are have proven to be the flagship DeFi product um for access for accessibility users and in institutions. Do you agree? Do you think that this is the flagship product?

Do you think that this is there's still um maybe this is actually a pretty two-part three-part question here. So, let me zoom out. Um do you think that this is the flagship product for institutions? It is a flagship product to bring institution or to bridge towards institution. I mean if you look at before and the first vote there was year it was I think everyone agrees that it was the first vote version.

Moro created the creator. So it was a bit more productized in a way. But what I think since we won the partnership and the partnership with Coinbase where people on the Coinbase app, not the Coinbase wallet, but the Coinbase app, we're able to land on Moro through a Steos vault. every fintech and every institution is looking at it and we are announcing a lot of uh partnership. I mean I can barely follow myself just for the stress ones and I'm quite sure our competitors are sending digital as well.

So it's really moving forward. Uh you can see plenty of integrations. So currently it's quite fintex. Uh I think the last one was DB blocking 104 volt which is an app more in Europe but uh we have plenty of others and so fintex custodian regulated custodian we are now live on enchorage which is a regulated uh bank actually in the US. uh the next stage will be even more um usual uh financial institutions or more traditional financial institution.

So that's how it's growing. We also see oh traditional asset manager are now like well if defi is coming to us we need to go to defy. So that's where we are you are seeing I think it was bitwise going to the vault business and plenty of other will follow. So there will be more competition but we welcome competition as long as we win. So we will see what happens.

>> Yeah, that's excellent. Um definitely interesting to see the interesting curation uh growing amongst traditional financial companies like Fidelity. I think it went uh it was on my timeline. It might have went viral on X that uh they were hiring for a DeFi curator strategist role. So yeah, really interesting here.

And as somebody who's directly in these conversations, do you feel that the unlock has already happened that this is just um you know based on time until all this capital starts to really start to move on chain, we're already seeing huge inflows of institutional capital on chain or do you feel that there's still blockers here? you know, blockers such as transparency, security, maybe even education, um, uh, towards institutions. You know, I think this is obviously, uh, you know, most people's questions here. I I flag it as like the trillion dollar question, but like is it here are vaults good enough to kind of really engage and bring and reach the total mass of institutional capital or do you see as one who's in the room, there's still some hesitation on some of these specific blockers that they're flagging? So everyone wants to go.

Now that's very clear. Everyone wants to do something. Now the question is more on the how. Uh we still have I mean some education as you mentioned uh I mean just a workshop in London there was only traditional finance people and they were all excited to do something but that somewhere a few years uh it will take a few years just to get a internal approval to start something but everyone wants to do something. Now the question is mainly uh compliance uh because for instance if you go if you look on base you have the coinbase users that are lending uh lemon is landing as well in the same v vault or the same markets.

So that creates a full ecosystem based on the same markets and that creates a lot of liquidity and that's very good for borrowers or for anyone really on those financial markets. Now some institution are more well maybe we need to be permissioned and a wall garden but then you just have a wall garden on the side but you are segregating the liquidity and then you have some user providing but you don't have borrowers and so it's a very complex problem we see those days when we try to bootstrap that's one of the key project we have at STO to bootstrap new stable coin currencies or new stable coin even in US dollar it's h very difficult to bootstrap a euro stable coin, a Japanese yen stable coin, Brazilian uh stable coin because you need to find lenders and borrowers at the same time while on US dollar I mean there is already plenty of liquidity so you will find someone will arbitrage the rate uh so to come back on the institutional side I would say everyone's to come it we are really at the beginning we didn't see anything currently it's really uh fintex which are only starting to come. I mean, Coinbase was the big one, but maybe it was more a crypto company than fully fintech, but now every fintech is coming. Uh, Mafu announced a partnership with Privy that we are part of as well. Uh, so we are creating the rails for all fintexs to come and the next wave will be the financial institution, but probably we will need more regulatory clarity before the next wave.

But should uh be exponential. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you, Sebastian, for for sharing that. Um I think it's always great to end with an Well, I prefer to have an optimistic outlook.

I think this this space is built on optimism and competition as you mentioned. Um, so thank you for coming and sharing today all that you guys are doing to actually advance the uh the usability um the accessibility and the success of this space and and for joining us on Beyond Yield today. Um before we jump off any last thing that you want to add maybe if you could share some insights into where people can go and learn more about stakehouse. Somebody wants to go uh try out the vaults and learn more where can they go? Yeah, they can go on the stinancial website that we have.

They can also follow us on Twitter at stosfi. Uh that's the handle, but you can find it on the website as well. We have a new app where we can access more volts, but I'll also I'll do some vaults that are not available anywhere else because we are creating new products that are more um we are expanding the universal of vault if you want. So yeah, the website is the best source. >> Excellent.

Yeah, thank you. And for those listening in, thanks for joining us for Beyond the Yield with Steakhouse here. Um, thanks for having me. >> Yeah, cheers. Thank you, Sebastian.