Fixed Rate Lending Is How DeFi Talks to Institutions

Midnight kind of speak the same language as uh TradFi and the legacy financial players are speaking. But, obviously, uh TradFi actors are coming in we're talking to a lot of asset managers that wants to enter the creation game as well. And they have been used to those type of product in the past. [music] And Midnight is going to expand the type of loans. So, we could do under collateralized loans, uh receivable back loans, private credit back loans, equities back loans.

[music] So, uh crypto back loans might be like 60 bill billion in total if you include even off-chain loans, uh which is a tiny drop uh compared to that big ocean that you we're looking after. Uh privacy, if it's well productized, I think it should be the default. >> All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Beyond Yield.

Uh this one is a very interesting and exciting one featuring Merlin from Morpho. Um First, I want to kick it off, Merlin, by saying welcome to Beyond Yield. Thank you for joining us. And most importantly, congratulations on the successful launch of Midnight this week. Uh excited to go through it.

How's your week been? How how crazy of a week has it been for you? And how are you feeling? >> Yeah, I feel Yeah, oh so first, thanks for having me on the podcast. Uh and crazy week as you said.

I think uh I mean, it's the combination of 2 years of work uh especially for the protocol team, but also the engineering team, product team. Uh and now it's uh turns turn of the go-to-market team to actually bring liquidity, close partners on top of the protocol. Um so, it's really a broader team effort that is the that is coming out. And so, we're super excited about that. It's it's a Yeah, everyone is pumped.

>> Yeah, and the industry is on the outside of this is is very exciting and pumped as well. And I'm excited to go a bit deeper into it now. Before we do, always interesting to start off with background. But more interesting background here I think is learning a little bit about your co-founding journey at Morpho. How you and your three co-founders came together to kind of like envision and start building.

And then also really interested where you sit today within the organization as co-founder and wizard. You know, what is this what does this entail? >> I was I'm just doing magic all the day. Not doing much activity. Uh Joking.

So yeah, coming back to the initial story. So um where to start? So actually Paul was like looking to to launch a project for a very long time. He tried like to launch many type of startups that kind of like work or not. And and uh he was uh studying distributed systems and he had a teacher that was actually thinking about two different ideas.

One was a DEX and the other was the very initial version of Morpho. It was just the the overall idea which was optimizing rates on top of existing lending pools such as Aave and Compound. Um this person could not do both um explore both projects at the same time. So Paul kind of like took that lending protocol idea and wanted to build a team around that. Um the cool thing is that we met for the first time on a Discord.

Uh, so it was a bit before that we met on a Discord. I think it was for Eth Global 2020, something like that. So we just chatted. He could not join um, my team for the hackathon. I think he had a English exam, so or something down like that.

Uh, so anyway, we talked for the first time at the at that moment. Meanwhile, I wanted to start a DeFi project in the space. I was contributing to open source project, doing security reviews, etc. And at some point I was um, checking under collateralized loans on top of Aave. There there was that feature on the Aave protocol.

And I think Paul called me and it said like, "Hey, hey dude, basically I'm working on that nice idea. Do you want to jump in and explore?" And I was like, "Sure, I want to build my own startup and in the lending space." So like stars were aligned. So I jumped in and we I joined Paul, Matias, and Juran to build the very first initial version of the Morpho protocol. This was during the pandemic, so we worked for a few months like together without seeing each other. And we were still students the first year, so we raised funds like we did two rounds.

We were still students, we did not drop out. Maybe it's the difference between the US mindset and the European mindset. Anyway, we could actually do both at the same time. And so we really built the first initial version as as students. And and we we launched it and we reached like two billions of active loans while it was like in the middle of bear market.

And so that's very in a very short lines what happened. And so far it has been it's been a very great journey and a lot of fun. >> It's It's a fascinating journey. I I like hearing about it, especially through the context of such um young founders, right? You guys struggling not struggling, but also finding the the line between school work and meeting on Discord and stuff.

>> Yeah, to be frank, I was not going at school at all. I did not know any person that were in my classroom, and I had a very good friend that actually did my homeworks or showed like a very kindly what they did. Um and actually the white paper or the yellow paper of the the optimizer mofo optimizer protocol uh were very useful because we put that as student project, and we reused that paper like so many times to fill some like requirements from the our school. So, yeah. >> Okay.

>> Anyway. >> And just to touch on it really quick before we move on, was the wizard title assigned within this at the >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> No, no, no. It's just me I I like not taking me and things in general too seriously. I I feel that So, of course, when you build a protocol, you need to be very serious about security and and safety and do things right, but in general, I feel that people take the themselves like too seriously, and I really like just joking about myself in general.

So, and the wizard Merlin is the wizard, so I just put that here, but it's not a real title. Um The real title I had was head of integration at the moment. Now it's more head of business operations, but uh but yeah, I I don't really care about the title. >> Yeah, well, thank you for uh answering that for me, solving my my curiosity there. And I love the approach.

I love the light-hearted approach that's you know, a foundation behind uh a serious intent in in building. Uh so this is great. Let's let's go into, of course, uh Midnight now, Morpho Midnight. Uh maybe high level, just it just to start it off. Can you can you explain the background of Morpho Midnight?

You know, it's an entirely new build. It's not it's not just a V2 version of Morpho Blue. >> Yeah, it's not a V2 in a sense that it's not a protocol to entirely replace Blue. Uh we think it's more like a new primitive that solve over problem that Blue is solving. Uh so for for instance, >> [clears throat] >> uh there was one big gap when we were talking So with Blue, we were talking with a lot more institutions, and uh topic that was coming back is fixed rate.

Uh fixed rate provided you provides you a lot of productivity uh that is very important for institution that wants predictability on how much they are going to pay or how much they are going to get. Uh and that's super important for accounting, reporting, and make sure that the strategy they run is actually uh will work and make money, which is not something that you can do using variable markets because it's unpredictable by definition. So you can have like a rate spike, which happen when you have like big price drops or um hacks, and you have like panic and bank runs, etc. Um while with fixed rate, you remove that problem. So um Midnight kind of uh speak the same language as uh TradFi and the uh the legacy financial uh players are speaking.

>> Mhm. Okay, and you mentioned building this with institutions in mind, something I want to definitely come back to. Uh but first, this is, you know, we've seen over over, you know, the crypto history teams attempting to build uh fixed-rate lending markets um and scale these to, you know, billion-dollar protocols, but none of which, at least to my knowledge, right, have really uh achieved such scale. And so, I want to, you know, get your insights into how this is how you're looking at this in the context of Morpho. You know, are there strong technical differentiations which you find to be the mode?

Um is it perhaps the network effect that you're, you know, building on top of? Really, what is the angle here that you feel gives Blue, uh sorry, Midnight the uh the scalability? >> Yeah, so uh first, most of the protocol that we're build we're building fixed rate, we're build on top of viable rate. So, they have you have fundamental uh limitation that comes through that where uh yeah, you have those limitations that makes it like hardly scalable. And then, there's a second point, which is um the there's a timing component.

Uh if you have fixed rate the way Midnight is doing it, you have a two-sided markets on uh with lenders and borrowers that can quote on both side of the book. And for that, you need uh a certain maturity of the ecosystem to actually have people that can uh put uh take and make orders on both sides of that book. And with Morpho, if you check all the version of the protocol that we've released uh until now, each time we try to kind of time the maturity of the market. So, for instance, Optimizer was not an independent protocol. It was built on existing lending pools.

It was not a clear paradigm shift. It was more an optimiz- optimization on top of existing lending pools. So, the pitch was same experience, same risk, but better rates. So, it was the very same experience, a very simple one-click, boom, you deposit, you can withdraw and withdraw whenever, and really the same experience. With Blue, we isolated the markets to make possible the capacity for lenders to choose their risk profile, and we introduced the vault component, the vault layer, which externalized the risk from the primitive layer with all the markets at the base layer, and you have this risk layer where you have vaults that are operated by risk curators, and we introduced the concept of creation.

And this is where really the vault narrative took off, the creation narrative took off, etc. But you needed those actors, those entities that are working as risk manager, risk curator to operate the those vaults, to understand how do you assess the risk of the asset? And before that, only DAOs were doing that job, and you had like entities contributing servicing those DAOs. And what we did is we opened the markets, and all those entities that earn experience use working on DAOs could reuse that experience, but working on Morpho, and create a truly scalable business on their own. If you take I don't know, for instance, a Steakhouse, they have 2 billions of asset under creation.

So, you can truly say that actually now the creation ecosystem is really a business line in itself. But and now the next situation is okay, now that we have the those primitive with fiber market, we introduce fixed rate market that is a bit more complicated because you have like more market making effort to do and this is where the all the experience that creators have earned on operating volts on top of blue, that can be reusable on midnight. And actually because midnight is even more flexible with intense the capacity to create multiple offers and I'm sure we're going to discuss about that. That creates that brings more complexity. But also that can create more differentiator for creators to differentiate themselves from other creators and how they are they're going to operate and bring yield to end users.

Um >> Yeah. >> So you see that each time there's a complexification at least on the operational and risk management but also a better product that is service to the end users and also more granularity on the risk you're exposed to and the terms that you want etc. >> Yeah, it makes absolute sense within that framing how you're looking at the time being now with the evolution of curators, you know, morpho essentially creating the curator or rather uh adventing the the curator model and now enabling curators to have more of these programmable feature sets. This is one of the things I really wanted to dive into so maybe we can continue on this process but now how do you envision the curator strategies changing within the context of having such you know, a much broader set of programmable features? Do you feel that I mean there's a lot of interesting uh kind of topics here.

Do you find that there's now going to be a separation between curators which focus on uh midnight versus blue? Does this open up new curator models? And then also we're seeing more types of institutional curation, right? I Galaxy Digital coming on chain, Bitwise launching curation, um and you're referencing midnight in the context of institutions needing more um uh essentially more programmability assurance on rates and whatnot. So, does this cater better to those?

>> So, my my guess is that all curators are going to uh try to quote uh on midnight. The reason was people in general are willing to pay more a fixed rate because they have predictability. Uh and And so, if let's say the variable rate is 4% on average on the 30 days, perhaps they're going to be willing to pay 4.55% uh for fixed. And so, that creates an opportunity for uh curators to lock in uh a higher yield for the end users. So, there's a incentive for curators to level up and actually quote on on midnight.

Uh that being said, as I said, it would be a bit more complex. So, the more technical teams and the most uh the most capable of like understanding how mid midnight works, um handling uh the rolling of the loans, etc., the duration, the liquidity, etc., are going to uh to take uh most of the the opportunities of midnight. So, that's on the current creation game. But, obviously, uh TradFi actors are coming and we're talking on to a lot of asset managers that wants to enter the creation game as well. And they have been used to those type of product in the past.

Um so, they are uh they not necessarily have the crypto on chain experience, but they have the trad fi financial asset management type of skill that get they they can bring on chain. So, we'll see both players operating. Who is going to win? I don't know. It's it's not clear whether they would some I'm thinking that some creator could be about by large asset manager that want to go faster and don't want to to learn all the skills to go on chain.

I think we'll see a lot of things evolving over the past over the next 6 months or a year. But yeah, quite excited to see that. >> Yeah, super exciting to see what this brings to life and what new types of strategies this and competitive advantages this creates amongst creators. Let's go back to intents which you mentioned and the reduction of liquidity fragmentation through the usage of intents. Can you share I think this is one of the more fascinating features of midnight.

Can you give me background on how this is working? >> Yeah, sure. So, to to define intent based. So, to come back to So, we talk about midnight as a fixed rate protocol, but what you can do is actually you create an offer and you sign that offer and you put that offer on chain. And then anyone seeing that offer can take that offer.

What is in the offer is you commit on the price and you can also specify a lot of things in that offer. So, for instance, you can go up to 128 collaterals. So, you could create portfolio back loans. You could also have like a credit score or whatever. You can like specify whatever the asset you want.

You can have like a call backs. You can have like the call backs could like check whether you have a KYC etc. >> [snorts] >> And and you can create also a group of offers. You can chain offers. So the capacity that you have is very flexible.

And this is why we say that it's intent based because you specify the intent in the offers that you put on chain. Like I don't know. I want to be able to I want to lend USDC only to people that are wrapped ETH WBTC and CBTC and that have the KYC from that specific entity. I can sign that offer, put that on offer, and then whoever comes first can take my offer partially on or entirely. And and then it's done.

It's settled on chain and then I lend the money and going to I'm going to receive the fixed rate at the end of the term unless the person repay early. And with that flexibility, you remove a lot of liquidity fragmentation because you can specify you don't need to commit liquidity into one single market. You don't have to bootstrap a market. You just have to create offers for those market that you find with. You can create multiple offers.

So for instance, on the Midnight interface that we've just released, you can create multiple offers for different duration. So for now, there's only one market. It's CBTC USDC. We're starting very slow. But you can create for end of July, end of August, and end of September.

And you create those offers and it's just one signature and then that's done. So that's why we're super excited because it removed a lot of uh problem of uh market isolation that we had on Morpho Blue. Um but you keep still keep that risk isolation uh because if you are matched whatever impact you the specific market where you are matched, it does not affect other uh lenders or borrowers. So that's the very cool aspect of Midnight. >> I just want to highlight here how also even what you referenced about intense being able to specify certain KYC requirements goes back to your point about institutions and predictability um and how this intent-based structure uh enables this predictability and um Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, like the institutions usually will want control on the rate on how much they're going to pay or how much they're going to get but also control on uh the product itself and the terms and who whoever they are going to deal with they want to be to remain compliant etc. So an institution uh willing to um to use Midnight could say hey we just want to deal with people that have KYC one two three and they specify that in the callback and then it's done. So even though the architecture and the base protocol is fully immutable and the DAO has like uh limited capacity on that and can't change markets, the institution uh entities will be able to be fully compliant and still use that the Midnight instance. >> Mhm.

Uh so this is fascinating and I I want to one of the things you mentioned is callbacks. Um I I might be mistaken uh my impression of this so far so maybe you can help to clarify a bit. But but I would I'm fascinated in like how you envision the interconnection between uh Blue and Midnight in the context of reducing liquidity fragmentation. >> Isn't it Isn't it the case that you can earn a variable rate while you're having uh you know, having market order to be filled or >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it would be the perhaps may maybe one of the primary callbacks usage.

Um So, with a callback basically is whenever the um the the offer is settled on chain, then the callback is going to be called. And within that callbacks, you can pass any data that you want. And in that callbacks, you can do pretty much whatever. So, I mentioned that you could specify a KYC. And so, at the moment where uh the offer is taken, I can check the KYC uh whether that address has a KYC and revert if not.

Uh but you can also create um strategies where you deposit um I don't know, USDC into a vault that deposit liquidity into uh into Blue or it could be at the market level directly. And whenever your offer is taken at the Midnight level, then it's going to pull out that fund and uh lend that out uh to on the Midnight platform. So, you don't have to uh like park your funds somewhere. You can still earn variable uh yield while waiting for someone uh to get the the fixed rate. Um so, we think it would be a a very big unlock in terms of bootstrapping the the network on Midnight.

Um so far, uh caveat, it's not live yet. Um so, we're going to release that in the coming weeks or month. >> This is one of the killer features that I'm the most excited to see in action here. This is super neat. And again, it's kind of fascinating the approach you guys are taking towards a kind of a separate build in theory, but interconnected in terms of the network effect and how you guys are building on top of this to bring straight >> Naturally, you could see also the other side where let's say you have valuable sorry you borrow fixed rates but if you want at the end of the duration for instance, you don't want to have you don't have the capacity to repay on time etc.

You could specify a fixed rate to actually roll your position on the viable market. So that could be done through a flash loan etc. You could specify that in the cool back of the offer so that at the end you your position can be switched to a blue. >> Yeah, this is This is super exciting. And not yet you mentioned not live yet but I think this is actually part of what's what's so I'm eager about I think what is exciting is that we're you know going to see how all these features roll out and really like diving in with you about how the curator model changes here.

We touched on institutions. I think I want to actually take a couple minutes and zoom away from midnight zoom back out and there's another killer feature that that Morpho recently launched I think middle June here or at least which went live mid-June which is confidential vaults alongside Zama and steakhouse. I'm super interested in this as well. How have you seen the demand for this so far? Right now correct me if I'm wrong it's really just this current USDC steakhouse vault which is live under the confidential >> Yeah.

So, uh and and yeah, we're super excited about exploring that because it's growing. So, the first problematic for institutions was uh what is our strategy to go on chain? What are the product that we need to do? And how do we do that? Um that is being solved because now that the product are alive and it's actually much easier now.

Uh also the regulation regulatory environment make that much more possible than previously. So, now the question is how do we build that? And and then after it's how do we scale it? And when you're thinking about scaling this, you need to have that privacy and confidential uh topic that to you need to bring that on the table because those institutions needs to preserve the privacy of the customers. And and this is where uh like the Zama vault uh for instance come comes in and um and I again, I we are not on infrastructure, so um there there's other players that are uh opening like other type of solutions to preserve privacy.

I'm thinking about Tempo, they have like zone um on on the Tempo uh Tempo network. Uh there's other uh Arc, I think. Uh I haven't read the white paper yet, but they have like a privacy features. Uh Ethereum uh is going to bring privacy also at the network level. So, uh what we're what eager to is exploring those ideas and see whether they're actually solving institution problems.

Uh and what we're seeing is that we've Dam Zama is talking to custodians or and partners of Morpho that already integrated their own product and now they want to extend that and improve that by bringing privacy and confidentiality to their customers so they can feel more reassured that actually they are not leaking any information or leaking their strategy. So super exciting about that. I think there's now 25 million of that on that vault which is pretty big. Uh maybe one of the top 10 USDC vault on Morpho now. So there's clearly demand for this.

>> Yeah and and once privacy becomes accessible on chain, right? For years it's been somewhat concept of theory something we're working towards and now this is becoming available even within the vault structure. Once this is available, you know, on a widespread scale is there any reason to not have a you know, confidential vaults? >> Well >> Do we move towards a DeFi sector and space where everything operates under a privacy framework? >> So there there's a one argument that um blockchain in public blockchain are providing a lot of transparency in the ecosystem which is I think a great feature compared to TradFi where a lot of things are within black box and you don't really understand what's happening which open up plenty of problems and I feel that transparency is a good very good thing to keep people accountable.

Uh and also like detect crisis before it's too late. Uh that being said with the privacy and confidentiality solution that we have, we could still have that transparency in the sense that we could have like a good understanding and and still data that we can explore to understand what is happening under the hood but not necessarily know and link that to specific entity or person. So, I feel that transparency is still important but privacy if it's well productized, I think it should be the default. Now the question is how do you embed that? You make that so easy that it's out of the box.

And and that is maybe your challenge that will take some years because as of now it's still quite complex. You need to shield your token, deploy that capital into a vault etc. Uh Ideally, it's completely abstracted away from the user and they don't even think about that. The same way that when you were using the earn product of uh on top of Morpho using the Robinhood the app or the Coinbase app, people just like click I want to earn yield and that's it and they don't think about the wallet, they don't think about the DeFi protocol, they don't even think about the what's the stablecoin that they're using etc. And I think we should reach that same state for the privacy solutions.

>> Yeah, I want to we're we're coming up a little bit on time so I want to spend just a little bit on institutions, you know, coming back to this within both the context of both privacy and um and fixed rate lending markets and midnight. You know, you're discussing just now like usability as um a requirement. It needs to be it needs to be baked in like the user experience needs to be clean. Do you look at this? Is this the same within the context of both retail users and institutions?

You know, Morpho is one of the leaders in this space within work with institutions helping bring them on chain. Um just like super curious how usability framing looks like within the context of institutions. Are you guys, you know, speaking and essentially helping them come on chain and, you know, answer these questions and their unfamiliarity with them as they're coming or are you looking to build this core product that the second they land on it, it's it's clear what the next steps are? I'm Okay. How's this framing look?

>> Well, it really depends. If if you take a fintech like a Robinhood as they have like a clear visibility on the product they want to build, the interface, the UX they want to provide the users. So, on that front they have like a clear understanding and the product should be obviously at any time at par or better than existing product using tradfi system. And I do think it can be actually better because it could be faster, provide better rates. Um, and and while remaining like a completely non-custodial.

Uh, obviously we're we have like a solution team, risk team, support team that help them and we advise, we support them from an engineering perspective to make sure that the product is optimized. We provide product feedback, advice given the years of experience that now we have building such type of product. When it comes to institutions, um, the their needs are a little bit more complex because the legal side is more heavy. Uh, also the stack is might be older. They they are like less risk averse they're more risk averse, right?

Um, and which bring a lot of questions and also they may not have all the skills internally to understand fully what they have to do, what they want to do. So here there's a lot of work that we're spending on education, onboarding, discussions with their teams so they ramp up, they level up on Westover, how do we operate that, how can it fit their existing stack. And so the timelines are much longer. The amount of support and solution engineering that we need to spend is is much higher. And we are more in a Usually we place ourselves as business partner.

And a design partner versus just like we sell you our product because for those institutions is actually how do you replace the legacy credit legacy system they have with that brand new credit network that they can plug into. And that is a bigger, deeper and heavier that can like take even like five years if or even more for some entities if they really if they are really want they really want to move fully their stack on chain. >> Mhm. I want to I there's a lot to go into here but I want to be you know cognizant of time here. One one last quick hit question on the institutional side.

When you're looking and talking with these institutions, what's the TAM? Like like you know we look at institutions in the space as you know like >> [clears throat] >> Fidelity, like Bitwise, like the larger ones, right? But it's it's a much larger space than that which we exist in right now. >> Really the TAM of Mofo is the TAM of all credit all the credit system as it is today. So, it's 200 trillions of loans existing, any type of loans.

That's the the market that we are after. Obviously, it's like a several decades type of endeavor. So, we are really like I think the current crypto background might be like 60 bill billion in total if you include even off-chain loans, which is a tiny drop compared to that big ocean that you we are looking after. But, that's the time that we are we want to to reach. And frankly, we don't see any blocker for that.

Midnight is going to expand the type of loans. Um uh to much broader um uh much broader possibilities. So, we could do under collateralized loans, receivable back loans, private credit back loans, equities back loans. We have a lot of demand for exploring those use cases. At the moment, we're exploring them and building with some partners.

So, it's super exciting. And as we build and we build that muscle, we build that knowledge, and we productize that in such a way that we can reproduce uh faster and easier each time we do it again, then we'll be able to scale to the trillions truly. And and Midnight is the first block to do that, and we're super excited about that. >> It's it's a vision. It's an ethos.

It's a it's a fight that the whole crypto industry can get behind, right? So, so that's got to be compelling and and you know, motivating, right? To be on the end of this where like success implicates the success of the industry at a broader scale. So, I think that's yeah, that's it's fascinating the position that you guys are in Uh um and how you're not just bringing Morpho forward but the industry at large within >> Yeah, clearly this like a broader DeFi team effort because you need the reward asset issuers, you need the our the oracles, you need the wallet providers, you need all those you need the curators, you need all those entities that work together and and stitch the money blocks together so we can let those institutions come to DeFi. >> Yeah.

All right, Merlin, last question for you cuz I so you can jump off soon get back to launching and seeing Midnight grow. So, you know, right now there's tons of features that are to be added and that we discussed the callback features, um you know, auto rolling and maybe the addition of new markets, the addition and support of new networks. Interesting that you guys launched on Base. I another discussion wanted to dig deeper into the angles there. For those you know, listening who first of all want to take next steps, find Morpho Midnight, start playing around with it, where would you suggest they where's the best resource to go learn more or start playing around?

And then also what can we expect in terms of the rollout? Not you know, queuing for specific timelines here but how are you guys looking at this scheduled rollout and and planning for these features to be added here? >> Well, so we we've decided to launch on Base on one single market for for some reasons. First we want to learn because it's a brand new primitive and we've we felt that starting on Base we so on Base there's Coinbase there's this is where we have the board product uh which is the biggest perhaps DeFi minute type of integration in the whole DeFi space. It's like 1.3 billions of active loans.

So, we know there's more demand for uh USDC. Uh what we expect is to to release a fixed-rate uh fixed-rate product. Um and if there's demand, then I it's easier to bootstrap. Um and also it make easier to learn. So, that's [clears throat] one thing.

We we do we start with one market so we can focus our effort on that, and then we're going to expand to other markets. Uh in terms of features, what we want to do is um uh release the callbacks, uh the capacity to deposit into Morpho uh blue uh while waiting for being matched on the on Midnight. Uh that's one thing. Uh we're looking into releasing the vault uh vault adapter so that vault can also quote into on Midnight, which isn't actually not something that they can do at the moment. So, that's something we we're working on.

Uh the you mentioned the auto rolling, uh which is a big ask. Um so, we're working on this at the moment. I don't have ETA ETAs, uh unfortunately, uh to share, but uh that's coming in the next few weeks or month. Um and then we will also want to expand to other network as there's a lot of demand for many uh many entities partners that want to uh to start building on other chains, for sure. Um yeah, and for what you say, uh link, so I think the URL, let me check, it's markets.morpho.org/fixed.

Uh you can go on uh on that URL. Uh you can play around Midnight. You can quote. You can pre- create lend and borrow offers. You'll see the order book.

It's pretty fun. So, feel free to to play with that. >> And and I would echo that and say it from my experience, you know, reading it helps to read documentation, but actually jumping in and clicking around an interface and playing through a new market is the best way to learn about it. So, I would definitely >> Definitely. >> I had a really good time doing that with with the, you know, the midnight launch and encourage people to go check it out as well for sure.

Merlin, thank you so much for taking time in the in the busy launch week here. It's great to catch up with you again and see you for the first time on Beyond Yield. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you so much, Dylan. It was a pleasure.

>> Excellent. Cool. Excited to see all of the next steps here. Cheers and thanks everybody for tuning in. Bye.

>> Yeah.